In this episode Sam Humphries stops by to talk Myspace and the Coen Brothers!

Topics include crushing records and also Mark Waid, deciding to get into demons in closest, releasing around election season, planning and completing a creator owned book, Myspace(!), entrepreneurial mentality for comics, talking dolphins, off the wall Minnesotans, flashing back to the Meltcast to now, boatload of comics coming out very soon, Jonesy from BOOM!, Top 3 Coen Brothers films, and also what he’s reading.

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Transcript:

Matt: Welcome back to ComiXology Conversations. Kara is out on assignment. She won’t be with us today, but I have the next best thing. He’s been called the Alec Balwin of the comiXology podcast. A run related to “SNL” appearances. This is, I think, the record-breaking 4th appearance.

Sam: God. Is it really record-breaking?

Matt: I think it might be. I think you and Mark Waid are neck and neck.

Sam: Been too long. Wait, Mark Waid is the one I’m crushing?

Matt: Yeah. I think you just passed Mark Waid.

Sam: Good. I would love to crush him. I cannot wait to see him next. He’ll be like, “What are you talking about?” I’ll be like, “That’s right. Act like you don’t know.” So embarrassing.

Matt: Yeah. We have Sam Humphries. Welcome to the show officially.

Sam: Thank you very much. Thank you. It’s always great to be here. It’s been too long.

Matt: It has been too long. It’s been way too long. You have “Star-Lord” coming out, “Weirdworld,” and most people maybe on this show might remember you from “Uncanny X-Force” or “Our Love is Real.”

Sam: “Sacrifice.”

Matt: “Sacrifice,” as well. “Our Love is Real” is probably the real standout I think that people know Sam Humphries from.

Sam: That one is very memorable.

Matt: It is.

Sam: It’s hard to forget that one, for better or worse.

Matt: Yeah, we’ll get into “Our Love is Real” a little bit later. You have a new book, “Citizen Jack,” out, which is out from Image. The pitch for “Citizen Jack” during the election season is every presidential candidate has a skeleton in their closet. In Jack’s case, it’s obviously a horrifying demon. Why now? Why Jack? Why evil demons?

Sam: God, well, just one of those ideas that occurred to me and I couldn’t believe that nobody else has done it. When I had it in mind, it wasn’t just the high concept that occurred to me, but it was also the character of Jack. Jack is a … He’s a lout. He’s kind of a boorish, drunkish lout and kind of a failure in his life. There’s a part in the first issue where his dad talks about how he was a failure as a mayor, he was a disaster as a hockey player, and he can’t even sell snow blowers in Minnesota.

There was something about that character that I thought was … He was so despicable, but I felt like … I just felt something for him. Maybe it’s because he was an underdog or maybe it’s because he was hobbled by his own expectations in life. I thought there was something. I thought I could work with him. I’ll put it that way. The more I thought about it in kind of a Coen Brothers context, the more I felt like we could do a book where you might not wish for the main character to succeed, but you do wish for his salvation. You root for him even though you know he should not be president.

Matt: Yeah, in no scenario should this human being be president.

Sam: In no way should he be president. I think there’s something very relatable about that. I think the vast majority of people should not be president. I think even though most, if not all of us, are very okay with that fact, but if a demon kind of showed up on the scene and was like, “Hey, you’re going to be my person and you could be president. You just got to listen to what I tell you to do,” I feel like almost all of us would at least pause to consider it.

Matt: Yeah, what could go wrong?

Sam: What could go wrong? Yeah.

Matt: He feels … He reminds me when I first read it, he reminds me of a Barney Gumble type character. Maybe not as drunk so often.

Sam: Yeah. Yeah, Barney Gumble is like, the cartoon. Jack is like, the real person that Barney Gumble is based off of probably. Yeah.

Matt: Did you honestly plan for this book to come out during election season or was that just luck and happenstance?

Sam: It was luck and happenstance, but nobody believes we didn’t plan it this way. I’ve just started taking credit for it. I’m now accepting the title ‘political prophet’ because now I can see the future. No, we’ve been working on this book for quite a while. It really was like … Everyone’s like, “Why did it come out now?” The reasons are boring behind the scenes, logistical stuff in terms of schedule and getting a colorist lined up and getting stuff in the can.

The book very nearly came out last March in which case I think the buzzer on the book would be very different. The political circus being what it is exactly at this moment in a lot of ways vindicates us, you know? People might be like, “Oh, that story’s so unrealistic” or “I just can’t get into it because it’s too weird, it’s too bizarre.” I think now people are like, “This is really making me uncomfortable because I can understand how real this is now.”

Matt: How does that process work for you? You have something written and then you get an artist and then … It feels kind of daunting for a creator owned book to kind of get all the wheels and pieces together to kind of then solicit it, and then actually get it out the door.

Sam: It is. It is daunting. I think, me personally, I came from a different background than most comic book creators. I had a corporate background. I worked for MySpace back back when MySpace was cool, okay?

Matt: I don’t even know what that is. You just made something up.

Sam: All of you all … Yeah. You take your silent judgment and you shove it. It was cool back then. I’ve worked for start-ups over the years and all sorts of stuff. I kind of approach my comics with a start-up mentality or an entrepreneurial mentality. Start-up is perhaps a little too loaded.

I just look at it like a business and a business plan. Certainly there is a creative element to it, but if the foundation of the business and the schedule and a plan and a profit and loss. You got to take at least a stab in trying to figure out how much it’s going to cost you and how much you can expect to make out of it. I find that when I do all that it allows me to be more creative, because when I do all that, I can stop paying attention to the nagging little whispers in the back of my brain. I can stop listening to the anxieties, you know? It will be like, you know? I worked this out. I worked the numbers out and I’ve done what I can. Now it’s just time to make the book as best as I can.

This is a roundabout way of getting to the point of your question, which is that every book is definitely different. This one I had a concept and nothing else. I didn’t have a publisher, I didn’t have an artist, didn’t have an editor. I didn’t have colorist, letterer. I didn’t have anything. This one I was really starting from scratch.

Matt: I think the way the book is formatted, it’s kind of gearing up to him making that decision with the demon and then the wheels are in motion for his campaign. His campaign manager shows up out of nowhere. Then things start to happen. That kind of planning. It feels like this book could go anywhere with this character Jack. Whether it’s the presidency or not.

Now, with that entrepreneurial mentality of kind of you maybe have a spreadsheet of figuring out how much things cost and all that stuff. How does that affect you when you think of long-term plans for a book? Does that affect kind of a huge document that you have like, okay, here’s the first arc, here’s a potentially second and third arc, and then down the line? How does that planning come into play?

Sam: Well, this one … I mean, the ideas just came very naturally. Before I even stopped myself and was like, “Oh, okay, let’s do some planning,” I already had ideas for the next 4 or 5 arcs, or even more. We very purposely didn’t call this book “Candidate Jack,” if you know what I mean. We have definite plans for the first … For the second and third arcs and plans that go beyond that.

We’re aiming for the White House just like Jack. We have high ambition. That came out of the ideas that we had, not necessarily a desire to be like, “Oh, we need something that has potential” or anything like that. If I looked at this book and I said, “This is going to be a kickass 6 issue story, but it’s best to leave it at that,” I would absolutely do that.

Matt: I referenced “Our Love is Real” as kind of a left field creator owned book. There was a moment … obviously there’s a demon in the book, but there’s another more left field moment where there’s a political talk show, kind of talking head panel show. One of the panelists is a speaking dolphin.

Sam: That’s correct.

Matt: Which I thought was … I love how you just said very calmly, “That’s correct.” It fits this kind of non-present day world because you also don’t even use the word Democrat or Republican.

Sam: Right.

Matt: Which I thought was a really cool addition. Then on top of this, you’ve got this intelligent dolphin as a political panelist.

Sam: Yeah. We’ve got a kind of like … I’m trying to describe it without spoiling it. There are psychedelic visions and horrific visions and all sorts of other stuff going on. There’s another version of this book that existed only in my notes that was way more surreal and out there and crazy to the point where a talking dolphin might’ve felt a little too down to earth by comparison.

There’s something about … I don’t know. In my gut was just like, I just have to make this more grounded. I need to make Jack a real character for people to root for him. If this is too out there, if it’s too wild, if the ideas are too crazy, people re just not going to be able to sink their teeth into it and really bond with it on an emotional level. I really think that, at least from my writing right now, an emotional experience is the most important thing. I’m sure there are amazing creators out there that can prove me wrong with their own work.

I tend to think of comics as a human experience. Yeah, the talking heads political show was originally something much more in the vain of “Double Dare.” Actually when I kind of formulated this I took my cues from horror movies, or at least thriller horror movies, where they ground you in reality and then they get very specific about where and when they break that. Where and when they introduce elements of tension. If the movie is 100% tension all the time you’re going to feel that excitement, you’re not going to feel that up and down.

We got very specific about where and when we would kind of break the veil of reality. It definitely is there to be broken and the dolphin is definitely a good example of that.

Matt: Hopefully there will be some variant covers for that character in the near future.

Sam: Everybody loves him. I’m telling you. Cricket the dolphin is already the breakout character of 2015.

Matt: The book takes place in Minnesota, but I didn’t realize that you’re from Minnesota.

Sam: Yeah, I am.

Matt: You kind of have a history of off the wall candidates. Jesse the Body comes to mind easily.

Sam: Oh my God, yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. It was like, “Sure, I’ll set it in Minnesota because that’s easy for me.” It was also … Minnesota has this very proud tradition of candidates that kind of have a screw loose, for better or for worse. This includes wild novelty candidates as well as more traditional career politicians. I mean, everybody from Jesse the Body to Al Franken to Paul Wellstone to Michele Bachmann. Minnesota really goes all over the map, too. We’ve had 2 presidential candidates from Minnesota, both of whom have lost. We’re 0 for 2. I think Jack really fits in with that tradition.

Matt: I remember listening … This will be my version of dating myself like you did with MySpace. I remember listening to you, I think I referenced this in a previous podcast, the Meltcast podcast.

Sam: Sure, yeah. Absolutely, yeah.

Matt: That was the first time I think that I’d ever hear- … I think Andy Khouri was on that show as well.

Sam: Oh, man. Yeah, those were good shows. Andy was a great … He was the unofficial 5th member.

Matt: I remember that being a really entertaining podcast about comic books. Looking back to kind of your position in the industry then to now, how’s that changed for you? You were doing that podcast and now you’re doing big Marvel books, you helped on the “Contest of Champions” video game for Marvel, now you’re doing some more creator owned books. What’s that timeline like, been for you?

Sam: I mean, it’s been crazy. In terms of my position within the industry, there’s almost no way in which my position hasn’t changed since then. Back then, I was … I’d worked at MySpace and I did some comics-related stuff at MySpace. Behind the scenes some people knew me, but in terms of the larger readership or fanbase or retailers and fellow creators and stuff, I was certainly not well known in any sense.

The Meltcast was great because, well, one it was kind of the last period of my life where I could shoot my mouth off in public, especially when it came to industry stuff. After doing that, a podcast for a year, if there was any worry that I was not up to date on what was going on or couldn’t speak to what various publishers were doing, or even where various characters had been and were going, that was gone. Just doing the podcast, the process itself, was an education.

It’s not just me. We had 4 hosts of the Meltcast. Chris Rosa is now an editor at BOOM! Studios. Caleb Monroe is also a writer. He’s doing some … I forget if it’s been announced, so I’m just going to err on the side of caution. He’s done stuff for BOOM! in the past and he has more stuff in the works. He’s a great writer. The 4th, Aaron Brewer, could not give a shit about writing comics. Andy, who filled in a lot and was our kind of unofficial 5th beatle went on to being editor-in-chief of Comics Alliance and is now an editor at DC Comics.

Matt: Yeah, that’s a great little look back to see how far everyone has transitioned into that industry. I thought it was really funny.

Sam: Yeah. If nothing else, it was every week I would look at what was happening and I would think ahead. I was planning ahead. During the Meltcast, I was making “Our Love is Real” and “Sacrifice” happened behind the scenes. Every week I’d think, my shot is coming, how am I going to do this right? What are people doing right? What are people doing wrong? How am I going to do this? What is my gameplan going to be? In a lot of ways it was a … Meltcast helped me formulate the playbook that helped me execute “Our Love is Real” and “Sacrifice” to such success.

Matt: Now you have … There’s more Marvel books coming out. You have “Weirdworld.”

Sam: Yeah. It’s crazy.

Matt: “Star-Lord.” Good grief.

Sam: I have 4 new number ones in 4 months coming up.

Matt: Oh my God.

Sam: It’s crazy, yeah. You can’t plan it this way. I don’t know if I even would. Here we are. I’ve got … Yeah, “Star-Lord #1,” I want to say it maybe comes out next week or the week after.

Matt: I don’t think anyone’s written Star-Lord as much maybe as you have as compared to you in recent years.

Sam: Well, as a solo book?

Matt: Yeah.

Sam: Yeah. As a solo book, I definitely have the record, but the previous record was 3 issues. It wasn’t a high bar to smash. If you include team books, both Bendis and Abnet and Lanning have an edge on me writing him in the team book, “Guardians of the Galaxy.” Bendis will always have the edge on me until he leaves the book.

Matt: Plus, he writes books for like, decades.

Sam: Exactly.

Matt: He leaves that husk of a title for someone else.

Sam: Bendis is not known for his short runs on books.

Matt: You have another book coming out in February. I’d heard about it when it was first announced and I remember one line stuck out. It’s called “Jonesy.” You had said that a book like this you couldn’t have been able to make like, 2 years ago. Why is that?

Sam: God because it’s so different than anything I’ve ever done at Marvel. In some ways, it’s different than anything happening at Image right now. It’s a very cartoon-y book, it’s protagonist is a teenage girl, and it’s just about her life. There is a hook, there is a high concept to it, in that she has a power to make anybody fall in love with anybody else. There’s a kind of superpower there, but she’s not a superhero. This takes place in her school, in her home, in her town, at her dad’s restaurant. All that kind of stuff.

The book could have been possible 2 years ago. I don’t want to slam the door on anybody, but it certainly became much more viable after Boombox, a subdivision of BOOM! Studios, started really gaining steam and doing what they’re doing with books like “Lumberjanes” and “Giant Days.” Those books are now really selling. Those books are catching on in a way that books in this vain had to really struggle before. Now, it seems like not only is the audience broadening, but the retail community has seized upon it and they are now working. They’re leaning into that. They are now buying these books with confidence.

Matt: Yeah. I think we see that. In comic shops it’s cool to see, and I know on comiXology, a different audience kind of being more comfortable finding books that they might like and talking about comic books. It’s really cool to see.

Sam: Yeah. I mean, you know, you can get in an endless debate. I think the audience has always been there, they’ve just not always been very well served. Distribution. Here we are on the comiXology podcast, I’m talking about distribution. Distribution and access is key, you know? Unless you’re just going to go door to door selling your stuff. It really is a matter of the industry waking up on all fronts.

It’s got to be distribution. Whether it’s Diamond of comiXology, it’s got to be the retail community, it’s got to be the press community, it’s got to be publishers, it’s got to be creators. It’s got to be all these people understanding what the audience is like these days and taking chances on them. These people are out there, they’re spending money, they’re showing their enthusiasm. Heck, they’re creating insane, intense costumes and making our conventions a blast, you know? They’re out there and now it’s up to us.

Matt: No pressure.

Sam: That’s kind of what I mean. Yeah, no pressure. No pressure. That’s what I mean. Honestly “Jonesy” is a story I’d tell either way, but now it’s just a lot more viable.

Matt: What’s your favorite Coen Brothers movie?

Sam: Oh God, dude. You can’t do this to me. The Coen Brothers are like … They’re probably my favorite directors. They’re very much up there for me. Can I say 3? Can I name 3?

Matt: Yeah, top 3.

Sam: Top 3. I would have to say, not in this order … Actually, I’ll go in order. I’ll say “Miller’s Crossing,” “Big Lebowski,” and “No Country for Old Men.”

Matt: What’d you think of “A Serious Man?”

Sam: Uh, good. I think it’s really good. I think it’s great, even. I did a ranking of all my Coen Brother’s films on Twitter the other week. I think I put that somewhere in the middle, but being in the middle of that run of movies is like, a huge compliment. I do like “A Serious Man” and it is their second Minnesota movie. Sorry, I really appreciate that. After “Fargo.”

Matt: Yeah. Well, it’s a pretty good list in general.

Sam: Yeah.

Matt: What do you relax to and read? What do you seek out when you’re not writing to read on a regular basis?

Sam: My new jam is novels. I like how I say my new jam is novels as if I’ve discovered the novel.

Matt: The last person to finally discover novels.

Sam: No, I’ve always been a huge reader my whole life and I’ve always loved reading novels. I started turning to novels purposefully when I need a break. I still read a shitload of comic books, but it’s always got me thinking about comic books. It’s got me thinking about the comic books I’m writing, the problems I’m dealing with, or it’s got me thinking about distribution and publishers. You know what I mean? I’m counting panels on the pages I’m reading. I’m doing all sorts of stuff. When I really need to disconnect, particularly when it’s been a frustrating day and the realities of comic book publishing are feeling more of a grind than usual, then I do like to turn to fictional prose, long-form. It is so divorced but it does scratch that storytelling itch. I just read a fantastic novel called “Everything I Never Told You by Celeste Ng. It’s just a fantastic book. I plowed through it in like, 3 days. It’s about a suburban family in the 1970s and their daughter dies. It’s about what happens to their family after the daughter dies. It’s so sad, it’s so intense, but it’s absolutely worth going through that experience with them 100%.

Matt: I’m going to check that out now. It’s a pretty good pitch.

Sam: I highly recommend it. Yeah, I just try and get … Earlier this year I read "Wolf Hall” by Hilary Mantel. Have you heard of this book?

Matt: No.

Sam: It’s a book about Henry VIII, specifically Cromwell and Henry VIII. It just blew me away and I loved it. Actually, a lot of it in very indirect ways inspired how I was approaching “Citizen Jack.” No offense or liability attributed to Hilary Mantel at all, but it is a fantastic book. I recommend it to everybody.

Matt: Well, Sam, I appreciate you coming on again for the record-setting …

Sam: I appreciate you having me. This is great.

Matt: 4th episode. Hopefully for the 5th episode maybe we’ll have you back on for “Jonesy” around release time.

Sam: Let’s do it. I got to stay ahead of Waid somehow. It’s the one area where I can say that I am better than Mark Waid.

Matt: Where you can crush him. Well, I appreciate it. Everyone should check out “Citizen Jack.” We’ll have links in the shownotes. Thanks again, man.

Sam: Thank you, man, for having me. Appreciate it.

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