In this episode Jamie Tanner helps people make comics.

Topics include unsolvable mysteries, Kara placing people in the Middle Ages, advanced surrealism, puns, cross-hatching is just the best, the dawn of Kickstarter, life getting in the way of comics, the importance of transparency, and what he’s reading!

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Transcription:


Matt: Kara.

Kara: Matt.

Matt: Welcome back to our podcast lounge…

Kara: Say it.

Matt: HQ.

We’re here with special guest and icon, living legend…probably the biggest interview we’ve ever done. Jamie Tanner of The Black Well fame, welcome to the show.

Jamie Tanner: Thank you very much. You just disappointed a lot of people who listened to the first half of the sentence, got excited, and then, you finished the sentence.


Matt: You could hear the clicks. “Unsubscribe”. I read The Black Well on our platform and the immediate thing I thought about…

Jamie: “What the hell was that?”

Matt: It had an amazing cover. I totally judge books by the cover. It had a picture of a man with a dog head. I was like, “I need to read this.” And it felt like I was in a lost episode of Twin Peaks.

Jamie: That’s high praise. I’ll take it.

Matt: It totally nailed that vibe. I’ve read some stuff that you’ve written and you talk about mysteries and how…

Jamie: You did your research.

Matt: Yes. You talk about how you prefer that mysteries don’t have a finite end. You want the reader to just do their own work and come up with their own conclusions. Why is that?

Jamie: I stole that line of thinking from David Lynch, really, or really, I just respond to it. That’s my lazy way when everybody asks, “What kind of comics do you do?”

They are these weird comics, sort of David Lynch-y, a little bit, which is high flattery to compare yourself to David Lynch. But in the area of the strange and mysterious, there are few who reach the heights that David Lynch reaches.

I heard him talk about that, just the sense of wonder you have when there is something mysterious or strange, and you don’t know what it is and it’s really exciting. It almost always is a letdown when you just get a concrete answer. It takes a whole lot for that to be satisfying.

I just am drawn to stuff that is strange and maybe doesn’t have a specific explanation, or just leaves a lot of room for the reader or viewer or what have you to fill in the blanks themselves.

I think of it like a puzzle that you just never get all the pieces to. It’s all there, but you have to fill in the last pieces yourself. Does that make any sense? It’s really pretentious. But I like to be pretentious.

Kara: Yeah. I’m just getting a vision of you if you existed in the Middle Ages and people start coming out with the Renaissance like, “Hey, let’s explain stuff with science.” You’d be like, “No! Magic is so much cooler!”

Jamie: Too much.

Matt: Kara is always placing people in the Middle Ages. It’s like every interview she starts out with, “If you were in the Middle Ages, this would be amazing.” This is a good premise for every interview. That’s our bit. We just didn’t tell you.

Kara: Like, “Which historical period do you most remind me of?”

Jamie: Science is pretty mysterious in and of itself, even when explained completely. If someone tells you exactly how the Higgs-Boson is supposed to work that still seems fairly mysterious and magical to me when I may just be dumb.

Matt: I don’t think anybody would get it. The Black Well starts out with a man who has a condition, eventually.

He is walking through life with this dog head. It’s treated almost like a normal occurrence to everyone around him. He finally is sent to a doctor who might help this condition.

Kara: Yeah. His wife is just like, “Go to the clinic.” And he’s like, “No….”

Jamie: You guys have read this way more recently than I have. I’m hoping I’m going to remember everything to be able to answer.

Matt: Even then, like I said, if anyone had ever watched Twin Peaks, there’s just things happening that you are not explained.

I was reading it and I couldn’t, at first, figure out if people really did see the head. Like, maybe this is a metaphor for something else, because everyone was so cool with it that he had this dog head. There was a point, I think maybe a third into the book, where someone actually referenced his head. I was like, “OK. They do see it.”

Kara: Maybe he’s in the future in a different time, or it’s like an alternate universe where people just have animal heads. Who are we to question? Just let it wash over you.

Jamie: It’s a common theme in my work. I draw people with animal heads all the time. There’s no conceit. There’s no setup to the world why some people are that way and some aren’t. Consider it lazy storytelling or advanced surrealism. You take your pick.

Yeah, he does seem to be the only one who is bothered by this occurrence in the book. In the world we live, other people would make fun of him for it.

Matt: There’s also the man who carries his own head later in the series.

Kara: Maybe headlessness is more acceptable in this world. Maybe our hero just has a complex because he’s a dog head instead of no head.

Matt: I’d rather have a dog head than no head. That’s words to live by. I want that on my tombstone.

Kara: What if your no head was a vampire head that you just carried around with you in bars?

Matt: We’ll find out in his next book on Kickstarter.

Jamie: I also wrote a lot of that book just based on stupid puns, basically. It sort of beings with a little bit of a detective framework, where he’s got to figure out this mystery that’s happened. There’s like the bloodhound, hound more literal with his dog’s head. There’s a lot of that nonsense in the book if you look.

Matt: Your art, I have to say, it’s gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous.

Jamie: Thank you. That’s very nice of you.

Matt: I had a comparison in my head, like the Daniel Clowes…

Jamie: Oh, again, super high praise. I’m going to take it before you take it back.

Matt: Take it, please.

Kara: All the quotes for your next book are going to be from Matt.

Matt: Yeah. I’ll do the whole thing. Richard Corbin, who I thought that I felt a little bit, too, in the book…

Jamie: Oh, really? Interesting.

Matt: Because there’s a certain darkness to the story. There’s a very dark tone to the book when you are walking around in this town, and there’s creepy doctors that say they can heal you and you have no idea. You see headless vampires. But growing up, what were some of your artistic influences?

Jamie: Clowes is a big one for me. I grew up reading superhero comics, like any sort of comics fan of my generation.

Then, as I got into like high school or something, I think it was like Sandman, and Cerebus, and Evan Dorkin’s comics that really opened my eyes to the wider world of independent comics. Those were huge influences on me. And Chris Ware, and Dan Clowes, and that whole area…

Dan Clowes is a very big influence on me right now. I flatter myself to think I’m even in the same field.

Matt: I said it, it’s true. It’s fact.

Jamie: He’s one of those, just an effortless…it seems like an effortless cartoonist, where it just looks like comics, looks very familiar, but there’s some amazing mechanics going on under the hood, like the way he uses the medium. I’m always inspired by his work.

Kara: Were you doodling ever since you were a kid or was that a later development?

Jamie: I drew more as a kid. I’m much lazier now. I consider myself a binge cartoonist now, where I don’t do anything for months and months, and then, I set some arbitrary deadline for myself and I work like a maniac for a month or two, and then I’m finished. And then, I burn out and I don’t do anything for months again. That’s why my body of work is quite small.

Kara: Do you have a part of the creative process that you really enjoy or that you find really frustrating?

Jamie: Writing is the most stressful, painful part of the process, for sure. It takes me a million years to get started, and then, once I have something vague planned and I can start drawing, I’m much happier. When I have a huge stack of penciled pages that I can just sit and ink and add a million pointless cross-hatched lines, I am very, very happy…

Kara: That’s my favorite part.

Jamie: That’s my favorite part, just sitting for hours on end adding thousands of tiny lines. It looks mind-numbing, and it is, but it’s really enjoyable, too. I think it’s a compulsion more than any particular artistic intent.

Kara: That’s a style that you don’t see all the time…

Jamie: I feel like it’s frowned upon.

Kara: It’s just so time intensive.

Jamie: That’s true. It’s stupid if you want to make a lot of work. It’s not a smart way to work if you want to be fast.

Matt: In 2009, you had done a Kickstarter…

Jamie: That’s what funded The Black Well.

Kara: That’s like a century ago.

Matt: Yeah, it’s like in the dark ages of the Internet for comics Kickstarters. How was that process for you? Which, relatively, it is a long time ago compared to how many people do it now.

Jamie: When I started it was only like four or five-months-old when financed my first project. There were like two other comics projects that went up around the same time, but there hadn’t been comics projects yet.

I saw that site. I was like, “Why are people not using this to make comics yet? This is an absolute perfect fit. I’m going to try doing it myself,” which was really nerve-racking, but it was really fun.

I didn’t raise a ton of money or anything, but it was enough to take time off of working and spend basically a year writing and drawing that graphic novel and live out my cartoonist…like, “I’m actually a professional cartoonist. Look at me.” I had a book that everybody got to read in the end. It was pretty fun.

Matt: Now, you are essentially comics lead at Kickstarter.

Jamie: Yeah, now, I work for Kickstarter, which is really strange that I started there, and now, I work there. But it’s a pretty great job, getting to help people make their comics on a daily basis.

Kara: What do you do exactly?

Jamie: I’m on our outreach team, which basically, means coming to Comic-Con and talking to people about their projects, pretty much, or just anybody writes in…I see my mission as helping creators make comics, or whatever project they want to make.

Kara: Awesome.

Matt: Brooklyn…people in Brooklyn do care. Didn’t you live in Brooklyn?

Kara: No. It’s like my entire team, but not me.

Matt: I think depending on when this episode is released, we might have the Consumptive collection on…

Jamie: I actually submitted four more comics that are in the pipeline for Submit. I don’t know when they will be up. But Submit is very easy, handy…It’s great. I’d love to have more in there.

I decided to arbitrarily say I’m a publisher and put a publishing, like Consumptive Press, just put that label on my books. Really, it’s just two extra words on something.

Yeah, I’m putting in a few older comics that I did over the past few years, just like little mini comics. And then earlier this year, I started a series of sort of with 8-Ball in mind. You mentioned Dan Clowes, just this one man anthology grab bag of whatever stories come to mind just to keep myself working.

Matt: What are your shorter term plans or longer term? Do you have a vision for your own creative work? Do you have more ideas…?

Jamie: So many visions. I have a million things I’d like to do. But comics is extremely time consuming. When you have a full-time job and a wife and two children, finding that time is often very difficult.

Kara: Life just gets in the way of comics.

Jamie: It does. It’s pesky, isn’t it? It’s terrible. Actually, I use Kickstarter myself even though I work there. But Consumptive #1 was a small project. I feel like I’m going to do this a couple times a year, just do a really tiny short project for very little money just to force myself to do a little bit of work.

I have a collection of short stories that I’m working towards, like one or two a year. Eventually, in five years, I’ll have an actual book. I have other stuff written, but who knows when I’ll actually…they’re in the bottom of a drawer right now.

Matt: How have you found the outreach process at Kickstarter now, like speaking to other comic creators to guide them or help them in any way you can?

Jamie: I always love talking to people about what they are doing. I’m very lucky to have a job where it’s like, “Just tell me what interesting work you are doing and I get to talk to you about it and give you advice to help you have more success.” It’s really fun.

In terms of outreach, you may not know this, but cartoonists are not the most socially outgoing, well-adjusted people, generally. I live up to many of the cartoonist stereotypes. It’s a little weird to like, “I’m going to go out and start talking to people.” But once I do it, it’s really fun to do.

Kara: What do you find is the most common piece of advice you have to give people who want to put their work up on a Kickstarter?

Jamie: It’s really just like be clear and communicative. And be prepared, too. I guess that’s a few things all in one. But it’s a very simple system.

You’d be surprised how often people overlook like, “Oh, you mean I just put images of the pages in there so people know what the comic is like, or just say what I’m doing and offer the thing? You mean I should actually learn what it costs to print the thing or ship it before I set a price tag?”

Matt: Who knew?

Jamie: Those few things. Just do a little prep work in the beginning. Comics is actually a very successful category. It’s one of the strongest.

Matt: I think I just saw maybe recently, or the last time I checked the Kickstarter format, but there’s this gorgeous new format for comic projects on the page. It’s like one of those static…

Jamie: That’s actually Spotlight. That’s when the project is over. It used to be that your project would reach its goal, and then, it’s like an archive that just freezes in time and you can’t touch it again.

But now, it turns into a little home page where you can direct people to buy the book. It surfaces your updates so you can keep telling the story of it, too. It’s actually really cool. I need to upload a new image to one of my projects.

Matt: That will probably happen about a year from now.

Jamie: Exactly.

Kara: I love Kickstarter…

Jamie: I’m a fan, too. Obviously, I am paid to speak highly of it, but I work there because I believe in it, not the other way around.

Kara: It’s absolutely disgusting how much money I spend on comics Kickstarters every year.

Jamie: I have that problem, too. You don’t even work there. I see them all go up and I don’t even think about it.

Kara: I think subscribing to Kickstarter’s newsletter is like the worst thing I ever did, because I always want to look at it, and then whenever I do I’m like, “Oh, that looks awesome!” Then the next thing I know I’m like, “OK. Here’s $25. Here’s $35. Give me your work.”

But I always like the Kickstarter projects that, like you said, are very clear about what they are making and their goals. I personally really appreciate projects that have a little pie chart that says exactly where your money is going.

I’m a visual person. I want to just be like, “But where is my money going?” I like that level of transparency that you get with Kickstarter.

Jamie: For all our talk of mystery, I think in the creative process I appreciate openness and transparency. I think everybody understands what it takes to make comics whether they realize it consciously or not.

That’s one of the beautiful thing about the field, is there’s a relatively low bar to entry. If you want to make comics, you can learn how to do it really easily and do it with very few, very inexpensive tools.

Kickstarter is particularly well-suited to comics, because comics is so visual. Just immediately, you can communicate what you are doing with just a few pictures, not even words.

Kara: Everyone in comics has to be their own marketing guru now.

Jamie: That’s certainly true. Again, cartoonists, the best salesmen for themselves, right? Love talking about themselves and can do it well, eloquently, very personable and professional. Actually, I make fun, but that has really changed lately. There are really professional, really outgoing cartoonists. They frighten me a little bit.

Matt: What do you seek out when you have maybe some downtime to read some books that have come out recently? What’s on the top of your list?

Jamie: You mentioned Dan Clowes. Anytime there’s a new Clowes book, I’ll read it. There’s that giant complete 8-Ball that just came out from Fantagraphics, which I already have all those comics, but I’m probably going to have to buy that, anyway.

They just announced he’s got a new full-length graphic novel that wasn’t serialized coming out next year. I’m very excited about that.

I just saw Michael Deforge doing a reading upstairs. His work is amazing. I just was catching up on…I’m like years behind what most people are reading. I started reading Saga last year or something. But that’s really good. I just read The Wicked and the Divine, a bunch of issues of that. That’s pretty amazing, too.

We are spoiled as comics readers. Both mainstream stuff and off the beaten path stuff, there’s so many great comics. I’m spoiled looking at Kickstarter every day, because there’s always someone coming up.

I was just telling you guys before about the Little Nemo Dream Another Dream book, this giant tribute anthology with modern cartoonists doing their take on Little Nemo. That was actually a very successful Kickstarter project. I was rooting for them and they won a couple Eisners last night. I was so excited.

That’s a great book. If you have a spare $120, or whatever it is lying around, please go track down that book. It’s amazing.

Matt: We’ll do a Kickstarter so we can afford it.

Jamie: Exactly.

Kara: A Kickstarter to afford all the Kickstarters.

Matt: Absolutely. Jamie, I appreciate you taking the time out.

Jamie: Thanks so much for having me.

Matt: Like I said, if you are into mystery novels, mystery books, definitely pick up The Black Well.

Jamie: Mystery, horror, comedy without really being funny or scary…Strangeness. If you like strangeness.

Matt: Absolutely. If strangeness is for you, then, pick it up. We’ll have links to the books in the show notes. Thanks again for taking the time out.

Jamie: Thank you.

(Source: SoundCloud / comiXology)

Sep 21, 2015 11:15am
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