Joseph Glass | The Pride

COMIXOLOGY: CONVERSATIONS is an interview-type show with comic book writers, artists, colorists, letterers, storytellers, and just about anyone making or reading amazing books. Portions of the interview have been abridged for maximum hilarity and you can FIND LINKS TO THE BOOKS MENTIONED HERE. Enjoy our conversation with Joseph Glass!

Matt Kolowski: Kara.

Kara Szamborski: Matt.

Matt: We’re here in the podcast studio.

Kara: You just hate calling it the Podcast Pit?

Matt: The Podcast Pit.

Kara: I love alliteration. You’ve got to run with it.

Matt: The Podcast Pit, which you prefer to call it, just doesn’t feel right.

We are here with a living legend. Living with us now in the Pit, right now, Joseph Glass. Welcome to the show.

Joseph Glass: Hi, thanks for having me.

Matt: You have a book, “The Pride,” which is a huge standout, I think, in our Submit books. I read it. I had a few people tell me about it. They were like, “It’s a satire Justice League, but entirely gay, lesbian, trans members.”

I read it and it had a stronger message, too. The overall message was you’re not alone. If you’ve ever felt down, you were bullied or anything, there are people just like you that care about you.

What made you want to be, “I need to make this book. I need to have other people read this and feel this way?”

Joseph: It’s basically the book I wish I had when I was young and coming out and reading comic books. When I reading comic books as a teenager, there were gay characters but they were always in the background or, “Oh, yeah. We have a gay character. He hasn’t appeared in 30 issues but he does exist, though.”

I felt like that’s not quite good enough. I loved the X-Men. It was the big thing which I grew up with, I got into comics with. Whilst they are an analogy for the LGBTQ experience, it was, to me, “I don’t want one that’s just an analogy. I want something which is explicitly, ‘This is about you,’ kind of thing.”

That was my first step to being like, “Why don’t I just make it?” That’s my story. Scripting it and looking for artists who, frankly, were also into the idea and then started making the books. That’s the main thing.

In terms of making it also quite satirical and having that element of… Although we deal with issue it’s still funny. We joke at things and sometimes even as LGBTQ people joke about ourselves. It’s because, in my mind, you can either laugh at the world or you can cry. It’s so much more fun to laugh.

Anytime I’ve got something where I’m like, “Oh, yeah. This might be a little dark…” I’ll be like, “Yeah, but we can put a funny twist on it.” Or, “There’s an issue here but you can look at the ridiculousness of it, as well.”

We try and touch on both side so that people can feel like, “Yeah, OK. This is me. I’m feeling represented and awesome.” But also enjoying the humor in it, as well. To not be like, “Oh God, this is so depressing,” because nobody needs any more grim and gritty books. There’s been enough of them.

Kara: I really liked when the heroes were having their first meeting when Fabman assembled them for the first time. He’s like, “Welcome to the LGB group.”

They’re like, “Uh, T. LGBT.”

Joseph: That weirdly turned to be a really standout scene. I say weirdly just because that particular scene, when I was writing it, was one of the first scenes I ever scripted. I started writing the book when I was in university, so years ago now.

It was a bit of an in joke. It is a joke about a situation which our gay group went through in my university. It was the ridiculousness of the huge argument about adding the T. When you move for it but then there’s people who are against it. It turned into this total runaround, which was totally unnecessary. We changed our name. We just became Pride at the university.

I thought like, “This battle makes quite a good scene for the superheroes.” I thought, “Reflect that.”

It’s become such a scene where so many readers pick up on it and are like, “Thank you for mentioning that and thank you for bringing up the trans issue,” and stuff like that.

I’m like, “Yeah. It was important and I did want trans issues to be part of it but I didn’t realize it was going to be taken quite as seriously and so to heart as everyone thought.” In my head, this was just a really important thing we needed to do for a gay group which I was a part of, but it was also a silly thing, how it took so long. It should have just been there from the get go or when we brought it up there should have been no argument.

That was what it was about. It’s been one part in the scene in the first issue which always come up. Everyone’s like, “I love that scene.”

Kara: Probably, also, it felt really real because, like you said, it was based on an experience that you had. I’m sure a lot of people have had similar experiences.

Joseph: Oh, God, yeah. I’d like to hope that… Obviously, even with what are we now, nine characters in the team, there’s no hope of representing every single person in the world. As much as I would love to, there’s no way to physically do that.

I’d like to think that there’s enough there that more people can feel like, “This is something I can understand. This is something that I can relate to.” Hopefully there’s a bit in there for everyone.

You can have a West Coast Pride. You can have Pride International, have nine members of each team.

Matt: One of these days.

Kara: When we were reading The Pride, we noticed that some of the language you chose was uncomfortable for characters in the book, and I’m sure for some readers. Why was it important to you to use language that would be offensive to people?

Joseph: For me, it was about mirroring the world which is really there. In my mind, it’s, again, like going back to the X-Men and the analogy thing. Obviously they had terms like “mutie,” which is basically their “faggot.”

For me, I was like, “Well, I’m dealing with things directly on the nose. I’m going to deal with characters who are LGBT. It’s completely, that is what they are. There’s no analogy to it. Best to reflect the kind of rubbish we get and to be honest about it.

Again, where I say, "You can either laugh or cry with any of these sort of problems,” I don’t see the point in completely hiding from them or hiding away. The “It Gets Better” movement, I totally supported it. Obviously we have a little It Gets Better in “Pride Adventures” #1, as well.

It’s worth highlighting, “Yeah, tough times do happen.” Those were always the best ones for me. Those were the ones, when I was watching those YouTube videos would affect me the most because it would be the brutal honesty of, “You’re going to have a hard time. Sadly, we do live in a world, at the moment, where the tough times do come. But they get better.”

That’s what I felt was important to have with these characters. They get this awfulness, which is mirroring the world we live in, but they overcome it. You see the characters who just it go over their heads or completely confront it. There’s never anyone who is completely broken down by it, really.

Even when I have the one character who is… Like the little boy in the first issue, he has a hero come in who can save him and that he can look up to. For me, that was what I wanted to do with the book. Let’s not hide things away. Let’s just be brutally honest with thing and just accept that this is the world we live in. It’s about getting better. The way to make it better is to accept that these things happen ,and to change them, and to work towards that change.

That’s why I wanted to include that kind of language instead of trying to hide it away at all. It was to that exact point, the specific scene where the young boy is stopped right before on the bridge. There’s that powerful moment where he makes the decision. Then, conversely, there’s the radio broadcast in the background of one he couldn’t save.

It was in that exact moment you can see how it can shift or go the right way or go the wrong way, depending on the person. It’s being honest about the reality of the situation, as well. The reality of the situation, if there were people flying around in great big rainbow capes, they’re not going to be able to save everyone.

It is the responsibility of all of us to help do that and to save as many people on that point. That’s why we have information for the It Gets Better Project, Trevor Project, and all of the help lines you can call. It’s important that we’re all doing what we can to help because you can’t rely on just one person or one organization to do it all for you.

Again, just accepting the reality that awful things still happen… We’ve got to try and change that.

Kara: Do you have a character on the team that you just love writing so much?

Joseph: Fabman. He’s so flamboyantly over the top camp. Every line which comes out of his mouth is just a joy to write. It’s funny because I was really worried about him as well. Because when you do have LGBT, or particularly gay men representation in comic books, I find that they’re almost always, as much as I loathe the phrase, straight acting. You wouldn’t be able to tell unless you have them lecture, like Northstar, announce, “For I am gay.”

It’s just like, “No.” We need to have a bit more acceptance of camp men exist. We like being flamboyant. Deal with it. That’s why I wanted to do Fabman. Rainbow cape, pink short shorts, the whole works. He’s just being camp as hell but he’s also a badass. He saves the day. It’s totally awesome.

Yeah, he’s an absolute joy to write. He’s got some more stuff coming up in the next issue, as well. I can’t wait for people to read that.

Kara: Very nice. My favorite’s Wolf.

Joseph: He’s probably… Him and everyone loves The Bear.

Kara: Really?

Joseph: Oh, my God, The Bear is so popular. The number of times at Comicon, the people will stop at the table and be like, “You’ve got a bear.”

It’s like, “Yes. Yes, we do. There is a bear.” Yeah, he’s crazy popular.

Also, we have Cub, who was only just introduced in the fourth issue and becomes a real part of the team in issue five. He’s already got his own little following.

Matt: I feel like it’s his hair. His hair is…

Joseph: Yeah, he’s got that badass look about him.

Matt: He does.

Joseph: He’s also interesting because he’s the straight man for the team. If I’m going to represent everyone, I’m not going to deny straight people exist. We have the straight man for the team. My worry was that maybe you’d have some LGBT fans who might be like, “Oh, this is our book,” or something.

No, they’ve been really supportive of him and taken to him really well as well.

Kara: He’s an ally.

Joseph: Yeah, exactly. That’s important. At the end of the day, as well, his dad is gay. He does have that LGBT connection. I think that’s important to show, as well. Because, obviously, straight kids of gay parents go through stuff, as well. Obviously, that’s part of what I hope to cover in the future, maybe someday if people keep on buying the book, please.

Kara: You mentioned fan interactions that you’ve had at the booths and stuff like that. What’s the kind of response that you get when you’re at shows or online when the issue comes out?

Joseph: It’s positive. It’s really mind-blowing, at times, just because in my head this is still my little book which I just made because I wanted to make it. If no one bought it I’d still be making it. I’d just be doing it a lot slower. It’s already pretty slow.

I get people who come up and they’ll actually be like, “Thank you for doing this.” It really does touch you right in the heart. You feel like, “I can’t believe this is actually meaning something to someone else as well.” It’s really awesome.

One of the best experiences I ever had was Thought Bubble, which is in Leeds in the UK…

Kara: I’ve heard great things about that con.

Joseph: Fantastic show. If you guys ever get the chance you’ve got to go. It’s amazing.

I was there two years ago and this lady came up with her daughter and her boyfriend. She saw The Pride. I told her about it. “It’s about LGBT heroes.” She told me that she has another son who was 12, had just come out in school, was having a real hard time. He had a close group of friends. He’s happy. He’s being himself. That’s really what he’s happy with.

She bought the books for him and I signed them and wrote a little message. “You are an LGBT superhero.” She had a little cry when she read them. I was having a little cry because I was like, “Oh, my God.”

I saw her again at Thought Bubble last year. She was telling me that he really enjoyed it and she bought the new issues for him. It felt really great that the books helped somewhat. In my mind, as much as I would created it even if no one was buying it because I wanted to, there was a part of me which also wanted it to mean something to people.

The fact that it can be there for someone who needs it means the world to me. There are people who take it to heart. It’s amazing. Which is, again, why all the support which comiXology has given the book and everything has been amazing.

The last year, in particular, it’s really skyrocketed. It’s great that it can do that. Like I said, it means the world to me.

Matt: What was the process for you creating this book? Coming up with the idea, “I want to do this.” What’s that like, as a creator, for you to get all the pieces in motion and getting the final product out?

Joseph: It’s difficult because I’m just the writer. If could draw for toffee then it would be so much easier. Sadly, it was, for the longest time, at first. A big part of it was also fear of being afraid that people wouldn’t like it.

For the longest time I didn’t put it out there. I actually started another project called “Stiffs,” which obviously is also on comiXology. That I co-write with some friends. We’ve made that.

They read, then, the script for issue one, which I finished sometime in University. They were like, “Dude, you need to make this, as well. This is really good. You need to put this out there.”

They were straight, as well, so I was like, “OK, straight people are going to enjoy this, too, then. It’s not going to be just good to me.” I was like, “I’ll give it a try.”

Then, thankfully, the artists on Stiffs also had some time. He was like, “I’ll do Pride, too. Don’t worry.” He did the first two issues of Pride for us. From there it went on leaps and bounds. I like to think you don’t get anything done unless you try. The worst anyone can say is, “No.”

I would message someone like Kris Anka. I saw him on “Project: Rooftop,” I think it was back in the days when you used to redesign characters just for fun. I was like, “I love your art. I’d really love it if you could do a cover for us or something.”

I told him about The Pride and he was like, “Yeah, I’d love to.”

I was like, “Awesome.” Like I said, the worst he could have said was, “No.”

I think that’s the thing. Anyone who says they want to make comics, just make them… There’s no real reason to stop you. There’s so many ways to make them these days. Even if you’re taking it to a printer at work and photocopying 500 sheets, bring them to a con, and sell them. Someone’s going to like them.

You will only get better from doing it, as well. It’s a hard process at times but it’s worth it.

Kara: Is there any part of the writing process that you really like or part of it that frustrates you?

Joseph: The bit which frustrates me is starting. I am the worst procrastinator in the world. I’m constantly saying, “It’s a blank page. I should fill it. I’ve got to look at Tumblr first.” It’s an absolute pain.

Once I get started, though, I find I’m on a roll then. That is why I enjoy it. The only thing which frustrates me is starting a new sheet. The only thing which I enjoy is actually writing. As soon as I actually get past that little wall, it’s all great from there. Every scene, even in its own way, is a joy to write.

I will admit, I do have a particular fondness of the character moments. Any sort of quiet scene where the characters are interacting or even one character is coming to some sort of realization, they’re my favorite because there’s nice little personal drama to that, which is always fun to write.

Kara: That’s where fan fiction came from.

Joseph: Exactly.

Kara: It’s like, “OK, here’s all the action but what’s happening when the action’s done? I need to know. I’ll write it.”

Joseph: Which is exactly, again, why, with The Pride, I wanted to have a slight element of soap opera to it so they have these character moments and discussions and things like that in between beating the crap out of bad guys and stuff like that because that’s the way it goes.

Kara: You have to figure, if this team really existed, it wouldn’t just be, “Let’s go punch someone.” It would be like, “What takeout place are we ordering from on the way back?”

Joseph: Exactly. It’s going to be a really brilliant scene in Pride Adventures Volume Three, which hopefully is going to be out towards the end of this year, where it is literally the morning after the night before. That was probably the most fun I have had writing this, with the possible exception that we did an exclusive story a comicon back in Wales which was all about Angel. It was all about drag queens and getting out all my drag queen lingo and everything. That was a joy to write, as well.

Kara: Very nice.

Joseph: That’s going to be a lot of fun. I think people are going to enjoy that one.

Matt: What do you seek out when you have time procrastinating to read? What do you seek out to read and enjoy from the…?

Joseph: In comics, the big ones I’m reading at the moment are “Batgirl” and “Ms. Marvel.” The big reasons for that is just because they’re not grim and gritty and dark and dour, much like what I try to do with Pride. I’ll turn around and be like, “Yeah, they’re superheroes who enjoy what they do.” I like that.

When I was growing up reading comics, I liked reading superhero comics because they seemed to love it. There’s always the awful thing behind having the powers but you always get… Yeah, Spider-man still gets to swing through the cities and stuff like that.

Books which still have that I’m really loving at the moment. Also a big fan of “Trees” and, I know it’s only just started, but “Injection” by Warren Ellis because, frankly, I just love anything that man does. He could write a cookery book and I would read it and be like, “This is the best food ever.”

Those are the big ones at the moment.

Matt: Have you read “Black Canary” yet?

Joseph: Yes. The first issue came out last month. Yeah. That, again, was really awesome. I loved how it had Scott Pilgrim-y elements to it. It’s just her rocking out. I’m like, “This looks totally awesome.”

Kara: How haven’t they done that with her before? Her whole thing is her voice. Of course she’s a rock star.

Joseph: And her whole outfit is like a rock star. Why did this only now come about? Come on.

Kara: She was Ke$ha before Ke$ha was Ke$ha.

Matt: Joseph, I appreciate you taking the time out. Pride is a great book that I hope a lot of people check out after reading this interview or listening to it. Kara, again, thank you for being here with me.

Joseph: Cheers.

You can FIND LINKS TO THE BOOKS MENTIONED HERE